Online Engine Rebuild: Volunteers Wanted

[lovebus (jack)]

You can do the spark plug hole yourself with the heli coil or this http://www2.cip1.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=C13-4013&Search2.x=0&Search2.y=0&Search2=Search  you also buy the inserts from cip1 May be a good tool for the club to buy.

Don't worry about that little hole, in a bigger engine you would see the whole stud hole. The cylinder don't seat there.

I would put some valve grinding compound on a cylinder and lap it into the head for a better seat, it don't look like it has bad blow by.

It ran good before so,
Get a set of swivel foot adjusting screws and rocker shims. Clean up your parts, fix spark plug hole, Lap in cylinders, put it back together with new gaskets, put on a stock carb setup and test run on floor. If it runs ok put your old carb setup on and test run on floor, if they run ok your a happy camper.
Find a road where you can run 55 to 60 MPH for as long as you can, turn the engine off and hold in on the clutch and pull to the side of the road, after 10 min pull two plugs one on each side and see if they are burning a brown color. if they are lean increase jet size, if rich decrease jet size. (when you get home) Most people are to lazy to do this so they never know how the engine is really running.
You can use my bell housing and starter to run the engine on the floor.

[Baha (Shawn)]

So let it be written...So let it be done.

I have a brand new set of Skat Forged rockers, They have swivel adjusting screws... Can I install them?

[lovebus (jack)]

So let it be written...So let it be done.

I have a brand new set of Skat Forged rockers, They have swivel adjusting screws... Can I install them?

Sure you can. They may need shims under them but they should come with them.

[njgt-1]

Top of pistons are 10mm below top of cylinder wall

?? Impossible? it wouldn't have enough compression to run.

See if you can run a piston up as far as it will go and measure the distance from the top of the piston to the top of the cylinder ( flat sealing edge) you might be able to use a caliper with a dial gauge for this. If you have a copy of the idiot book Muir shows how to make a simple tool to hold the cylinder down while you measure the DH.

Those copper shims are to lower the compression to something usable.They usually are used between the heads & cylinders so somebody didn't have the regular metal ones.  Also measure the size of your intake & exhaust valves it might be nice to know this stuff while its apart. If you can figure the deck height ( with the copper shims installed ) and can cc the heads ( I have the rig for this ) you can figure out where you stand with compression ratio, which shouldn't be too far from 7.5:1, thats if you plan on running pump gas ( hi test) Someplace on this site Jack posted a nice calculator for compression ratio. You will need to know deck height, head ccs, bore & stroke. You can alter that ratio by using shims under the cylinders.

I have a brand new set of Skat Forged rockers, They have swivel adjusting screws... Can I install them?

I'd transfer the swivel screws to your old rockers for now and wait on the scats. Didn't Rick mention that they were "ratio rockers" ? If so you need to reconfigure the valve train geometry, replace the aluminum pushrods and think about getting a set of solid rocker shafts if you already don't have them.

[Baha (Shawn)]

?? Impossible? it wouldn't have enough compression to run.

See if you can run a piston up as far as it will go and measure the distance from the top of the piston to the top of the cylinder ( flat sealing edge) you might be able to use a caliper with a dial gauge for this. If you have a copy of the idiot book Muir shows how to make a simple tool to hold the cylinder down while you measure the DH. I used a metric dial caliper to get the measurement. I have a dial indicator & will get you an accurate reading as per your method

Those copper shims are to lower the compression to something usable.They usually are used between the heads & cylinders so somebody didn't have the regular metal ones.  Don't know if the ones on the bottom of the cylinders were copper. Jay looked at them while I went to get the camera.There were NO shims in the heads
Also measure the size of your intake & exhaust valves it might be nice to know this stuff while its apart. I've never actually measured a valve before. Is it measured at the largest part of the disc?If you can figure the deck height ( with the copper shims installed ) and can cc the heads ( I have the rig for this ) I've seen it done with a piece of plexi & a large syringe. I'm pretty sure I can do that for you you can figure out where you stand with compression ratio, which shouldn't be too far from 7.5:1, thats if you plan on running pump gas ( hi test) Before thios problem surfaced I ran on regular with no sign of knocking so maybe it was lowSomeplace on this site Jack posted a nice calculator for compression ratio. You will need to know deck height, head ccs, bore & stroke.I believe stroke is factory 69... we'll see You can alter that ratio by using shims under the cylinders.

I'd transfer the swivel screws to your old rockers for now and wait on the scats. Didn't Rick mention that they were "ratio rockers" Yeah they're 1:10's? If so you need to reconfigure the valve train geometry, replace the aluminum pushrods Got a set of chromollys I'll need you to cut (I own a measuring tooland think about getting a set of solid rocker shafts if you already don't have them.

Will try to get deck height done & results posted tonight

[njgt-1]

I used a metric dial caliper to get the measurement. I have a dial indicator & will get you an accurate reading as per your method

you can also use a feeler gauge and a "deck height tool".

Don't know if the ones on the bottom of the cylinders were copper. Jay looked at them while I went to get the camera.There were NO shims in the heads

Normally the shims are used under the cylinders. Copper is sometime used in the heads but not really necessary. If you lap the cylinders to the heads like Jack suggested you will improve the seal.

I've never actually measured a valve before. Is it measured at the largest part of the disc?

correct

I've seen it done with a piece of plexi & a large syringe. I'm pretty sure I can do that for you

The head must be level, screw in a spark plug and use grease to seal the disk. Take several measurements of the same chamber and careful not to trap air and cause bubbles.

Got a set of chromollys I'll need you to cut

I can do em but you need to be 100% sure you have the correct length. With a stock 69mm stroke and regular rockers your length will be close to stock.

[Baha (Shawn)]

Here's what we've got...

Deck height 3.4mm (TDC)

Deck Height 72mm (BDC) (68.6mm stroke?)

Valves 35.5mm & 32mm

[Bugaru "JAY"]

 From what I saw it looked like about a 2 - 4mm shim at the base of the cylinders. Didn't pull the jugs to determine what the shims were made of. Too much dirt, and oil to see them clearly. Notting at the top of the cyl etc. Only thing visible was where the heads were cut wider to accomadate the larger jugs. At a few of the stud passage holes the heads were cut into, and opened a passage into the head stud passage holes. On at lease one of them you could see where blow-by was pushing oil etc out and through the stud opening down onto the jugs.

Also looked like someone cross threaded several of the spark plug holes, and at lease one only had about 3 threads left for the plug to seat on Yep #3 Cyl.. This cyl plug hole was so enlarged that you could probably use one of those hugh Model-T spark plugs. No wonder he had a air / exhaust leak / Blowby.  shocked

Shawn reports no bottom end knocking etc. So if all is solid below the block, he may be able to salvage the heads with some heili coils for the spark plugs and either lap the heads or try using a thin copper sealing ring to help close off any inperfections. I'm not sure that lapping the heads will seal off where the heads are cut through and into the stud passage holes. I thought that most modern VW builders now used the thin copper rings on larger engines to help close off these imperfections as the soft copper will crush easily into these areas and provide for a better seal against the two different metals alum & steel temp differences, etc. Also would suggest hitting the jugs with a hone to assist in cleaning them up a bit while your this far into it. 

If Shawn needs a  vwlogo engine to get by on till he can rebuild his, I have one that he can run till he recovers his rebuild. So getting back on the road shouldn't be a biggie  drive&& . Hopefully maybe Jack, Bob, Rick etc or someone can get an eyeball on the situation to better advise Shawn as to what's best to do.
s#r
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[Baha (Shawn)]

Also looked like someone cross threaded several of the spark plug holes.

What motor did you look at? I only took 1 plug out...the bad one. I was going to order the heli-coil kit tomorrow...You telling me I need more than one? Oh, and fix your avitar...

[Bugaru "JAY"]

 The head that had the enlarged spark plug hole in Cyl #3 well the plug next to it wasn't screwed all the way in and sat up in the plug threads about a 1\4" higher then where it should of seated. It too was probably cross threaded at some point in time and the threads buggered-Ru'ed. That Plug hole may be able to be chassed with a plug reamer and saved. If not you may need to put a Heilicoil in that hole also. I have a plug hole chaser if you need it.

And leave the Beetles alone.  &m&

[Baha (Shawn)]

Latest Update:

Daverted came over and we got the whole thing cleaned up. (Thanks Dave!) Dave spotted a crack in my aluminum crank pulley so I have to get one of those.

OK Sensai Jack & Bob here are some observations I would like your thoughts on...

The shim under the cylinders is 1.5mm thick. They were siliconed on both sides! Is this normal?

The cylinders dont seem to sit tight on the shims when I push them down (without heads & nuts tightened)


Neither of my ring compressors open up (They're a sealed circle). Got a trick for puttin on the cylinders? Or do you have an "openable" ring compressor I can borrow?

[lovebus (jack)]

You should not use silicone for anything on the engine, use non hardenig permatex on both sides of the shims and not so much that it runs all over the place.

Why did you take the Cyls off did you hone them, I hope not.

I have the right ring compressor you can borrow. Do you know how to arange the rings on the pistons?

[Baha (Shawn)]

You should not use silicone for anything on the engine, use non hardenig permatex on both sides of the shims and not so much that it runs all over the place. That's probably what it was as the Naptha in the cleaning solvent swelled it up and made it lose it's adhesion

Why did you take the Cyls off did you hone them, I hope not. Just took the one (#3) off because I wanted to make sure the piston was OK...it is. Also no honing was done. There are no scores and the ridge is bearly detectable. I didn't think honing would be necessary. There is a small triangular area on the bottom of one cylinder that looks like something (water?) layed in there and discolored it. A little valve grinding compound on my thumb and then some PB blaster smoothed it out. I think a scotchbrite will get rid of it

I have the right ring compressor you can borrow. Do you know how to arange the rings on the pistons?Rings intact although the splits weren't 180 degrees from each other

[Baha (Shawn)]

P.s. The other reason for removing the cylinders were you wanted me to lap them into the heads with valve grinding compound