John Doe Stall

[matt]

 Because Katie needed my Honda due to her Jeep being down ( one more thing to do on my list) I drove John Doe to work a week ago
3/4 of the way to work, ( ~ 20 miles)stopping  at a red light his RPMs dropped then he stalled. I tried to get him started, and took a very long time of turning the engine over to get him started again.
Got to work, but would not start again. At the end of the work day he started up. Drove home maintaining high revs at every stop I had to do. At home, took my foot off the gas and he ran fine.


Next day he would not start. Sprayed some starter fluid down the carb, he started right up.  Ok, thought I would further check/replace fuel pump if needed.

Next morning, he started.

Later did not start, sprayed starter fluid down carb, would not start. Sprayed again, would not start.

At this time I thought it could be the coil, so pulled out an extra one..

Transferred all necessary wires from the car mounted  coil, to my spare. Started right up.

Put all wires back to the car mounted coil would not start.

Not trusting reality    I again transferred the wires from the car mounted coil to my spare, car started right up
Put the wires back to the car mounted coil would not start.  A-Ha,
I switched out of  the car mounted coil with my spare, car started.. YES!

Started up always for days.
Then one day drove it for about 30 miles, rev.s dropped at a light.... stalled.. OH NO!  took a long time to start the engine, thought I was stranded.

I got it home and it ran fine. astound

  Afterwards, checked the spark from the coil, which seemed fine., fuel pump output seemed fine, as it was running, I moved coil wires around, and it ran fine.  I checked the spark from #3 wire, and the wire pulled right out of the spark plug wire cap. I got the cap off of the spark plug with pliers, cut the wire and screwed the cap back onto the wire. Car seemed to run better.

So what could this delayed stall be from?
I do not see any icing on the carb/manifold
I am thinking it could be a ..
1) bad distributor condensor
2) junk in the carb

Any other thoughts for me to check?


Thanks

Matt

[Gunterwagen (Nick C.)]

Maybe the ground strap to the transmission is loose? Or just a loose ground somewhere. 

[lovebus (jack)]

Fuel filter... Aint cars a pain in the   

[matt]

Thanks, will check both.... yea, a pain - but the things we love need tending to on occasion!   

[kvbug (karen)]

Yeah... check to make sure your AAA dues are paid....             

[matt]

 what a smarty pants!

 & Better yet my club dues are now paid     

[matt]

Update

 Ok, Checked fuel filter, and was clean as a whistle,   

Car started with little prob, but ran only on choke. I adjusted the idle /bypass screw out until rpms increased then ran seemingly ok when warm. readusted  mixture/volume screw - moved idle down to about 850

Test drive, ran ok, not great, stumbled twice on a 15 min drive.

Because the idle & mixture screw had to be adjusted, thought something got into my carb.
Removed carb, and cleaned it out = jet, idle, mixture orifices, etc. with carb cleaner and pressurized air.
Filtered all deposit through tissue to see what was coming out.



So most if not all of this was at bottom of bowl


Replaced O-ring on idle screw.
Put all together and bolted to car, but was too dark, and more importantly dinner time to try it out.
Maybe this week.






It was getting dark by this point, so had

[MugMan (Rich)]

Matt, check the condition of the accelerator pump in the carb. Ethanol may have eaten the pump lining

I always had great results on my VWs with getting them professionally rebuilt by Tim at Volkzbitz. For about $170, it saved a lot of dicking around. Just a suggestion.......

[matt]

  Thanks Rich - appreciate your time in responding.,

Will check that out also.
Right now in starting him up, the starter is not cranking. Been having this problem off and on for a few months. Seemed like moving the wires under the back seat would sometimes get his started. Not this time. This leads me to believe to check the wires going to the starter.

I would like to verify the starter (solenoid) is the problem, as opposed to my ignition switch.... Will prob check it out next weekend.

[lovebus (jack)]

sounds like a starter relay is needed....

[Gunterwagen (Nick C.)]

Maybe the timing is just a little off?

[matt]

 Thanks for the suggestions so far,

I have the back seat out and moving the wires associated with the battery was a no go to get the engine to turn over.. usually this would do it. I then lifted the battery up a few times and let it thunk down.  engine then turned over... possibly a shorted cell in the battery(?). I wonder if my voltmeter would pick that up. 

If the battery thunking method did not work, I was prepared to go under and to the screwdriver-solenoid test. ( removing the center distrib coil wire first!.. among chocking, etc.  I guess that would help me determine if solenoid or starter relay as Jack suggested..  are those the same thing...?

But for now,  the engine is turning over, but not starting.
As for timing, when it was running before the carb rebuild, it was running like it was well timed...or well enough. BUT still I will check that. Dwell is good.

I sprayed starter fluid down the carb, and still would not start. For me ,this tells me something relating to the ignition-spark system is not working. I sprayed the fluid down to  also eliminate the accel pump as (Rich mentioned) as a possibility. If the accel pump was an issue, I would think the starter spray would still get it going.


I am still thinking it is the  distrib condensor, .. many many many years ago, had a prob with a distrib condensor, and could not get it started.... so just maybe..

Tried switiching out another used coil, but no go.


But now my wife gets the garage in the winter time, so I can only work on it on weekends, BUT I got a Honda steering pump to replace, Jeep  rear upper and lower trailing arms, and front arms to replace.... So John Doe work will be on occasion.

I need another full time garage... I need Jack's garage.. bet your'e not using it buddy.

Really do apprecaite all of the suggestions! Thanks!

[matt]

 Finally found the problem.....!!

I was checking the points out again, and felt they were 'used" but fine,.. then I found... although it seemed connected,   the ground wire to the distrib plate was really only attached by one thin wire. the rest of the braided wire  from the distrib wall, was not making any contact, but was close. So I clipped the small remaining wire, soldered the wire braid to the plate  ( Decided to put new points in while "I was there" ) put the distrib in the engine and started it up fine.
  Set dwell, (although 2 dwell meters are saying slightly diff values* ) and set the timing statically for now.
Later will adjust carb, and strobe the timing...

But am really happy I found the prob    Glad I messed with the grounding wire so see there was really no good connection.
Fun challenge!




* When you have one thermometer, you know exactly what the temperature is.. when you have two thermometers, you no longer know the exact temperature...

[Bugaru "[email protected]"]

 Matt
 Good find, and a very common problem.

 These old cars age and so does the wiring harness. The wiring sheathing gets dried out and cooked from a combination of aging and of engine heat drying out the sheathing. Often I find where wires are broken or badly oxidized inside of the sheathing. and it's always the ends nearest the termination connector etc.   

 Good find Buddy now get that Camper on the Road we've gots Camping to do soon. 

[lovebus (jack)]

Good find Matt, glad you found it....